эך|χэ
xTeam
Reality Is for those who can't handle the Internet.
Posts: 796
|
Post by эך|χэ on Mar 14, 2004 15:32:07 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by Alexander on Mar 14, 2004 16:04:32 GMT -5
lmao so true so true i recon the definition of heaven and hell are the same place just what the service is like and how your treated, kinda like a hotel then again i aint christian and as many christians have told me before, im going to hell ;D
|
|
|
Post by p00p on Mar 15, 2004 5:35:56 GMT -5
Wow slow down eh, wtf? that has to be one of the most stereotypical views ive heard in a longtime...you will actualy find the majority of people who partake in A.Laveys form of Satanic faith are very moderate and not "Baby Killers" ect ect ect so the most of its bad comment is frankly less than solid on fact! But to the topic at hand, Of course faith based schools are gonna have faith involved in the education, but as far as public schools go they should be utterly neutral For instance at my primary school we had a few hindu kids...now they had to sit threw a minister every week at school assembly going on about how "God is the way" and "Jesus died for your sins" there seems to be this line of thinking especaily in the UK that Christian faith is the main stream , so if your not with it "tough your gonna have to put up with it" in alot of schools. Its almost laughable that anyone feels that faith has any connection to education, when it doesnt...why for example should Ravi the hindu kid from my class have to sit threw something that totaly doesnt equate to him and basicly seperates him from alot of his class mates? in fact why should i have to? why should my kids ( if i ever bite the bullet and have any) have to? Education should be neutral as possible , becuase its not about faith, its about teaching and helping young minds progress. On the subject of free choice in faith, id have to agree if i ever have kids they wont be forced to attend mosque or even be muslim. They will grown up with it around them becuase of me being muslim, but thats a choice for them in later life if they want it, and if they dont its all good. Its the same as the Church and State should not be linked thing. Here in the UK the christian church feels it can dictate its morals onto everyone by putting pressure onto the goverment on issues of morality, well im sorry the christian church in the UK is so out of line. Who are they to dictate to me? no one thats who, granted they have the right to stand up for what they believe but when they start standing up saying they speak for the majority when they clearly dont....somethings sadly wrong. And the problem mainly stems from the amount of power the christian establishment used to hold in the UK, EU ect ect. They just cant seem to accept that things are diffrent now, and that we are not a country that just conforms to the line, but rather accept and nurture many diff kinds of lifestyles, faiths..ect ect end rant!
|
|
|
Post by Alexander on Mar 15, 2004 13:45:34 GMT -5
lol, ironically the whole thing about sacrifice rarely happens these days, you get the odd cult kill an animal but it rarely happens, and i havent heard of human sacrifices for years, its mainly cults that continue to sacrifice not the organised religions such as satanism, wicca etc, they tend to literally buy blood from a butchers that the butcher doesnt want or use, u know recycle the stuff and use it in blood rituals if they have too, it beats going out and killing a rabbit or something lol
|
|
|
Post by Ohio on Mar 15, 2004 16:41:25 GMT -5
Haven't been around for a few days, so kinda late with my comments.
First off, Pashy, I think they should teach children how to properly handle a firearm. How many accidental deaths could be prevented if children knew how to properly handle a firearm? But that is another topic all together.
Muhammad at first accepted the Jewish and Christian teachings, but later discounted them as being corrupted. So in addition to the Qur'an, the Torat (of Moses), Suhuf (books of the prophets), Zabur (psalms of David), and the Injil (gospel of Jesus) are also studied and considered to be revelations, although they are believed to have been corrupted through time.
The modern day bible is based off of the transcritpion of the dead sea scrolls by catholic monks. In the late 80's early 90's, another cache of dead sea scrolls was found that was double the size of those that were used in the writing of the bible. So how much is missing from the bible? How much truth is hidden from the rest of the christian world, locked away in the vaults of the vatican(were the latest cache of scrolls ended up)? How much was altered in the translation to suit the church?
My personal beliefs are mostly Christian. But I also study the teachings and history of Islam and Buddhists. I don't believe God would base his worship and following soley on one messenger. So I find the views of many religous ppl very disconcerting. Christians and Jews that think God and Allah are not the same, and muslims that believe it as well. Or the belief that buddhists are godless. How else would they all have the same basic principles and the same basic code of conduct?
Teaching kids about the beliefs(not what to believe) of all religions and the history behind each, would give them a much better perspective of the world and the rest of those that inhabit it. Instead of Christian kids watching the news and hating muslims for thier actions, or muslims being taught to hate christians, there would be an enlightenment on the part of most that we are not so different in what we believe. And that would give way to respect, and respect would give way to peace.
Instead, in the US a different course of action has been taken. They claim seperation of church and state, but they single out only christians. Kids that practice other religions are usually free to do so, it is only the christians that are restricted in most schools. And once again this discriminatory action only further drives in the wedges that seperate us and breeds only more discontent. Personally I think this has only helped Christianity grow. How many of you as kids rebelled against what you were told to believe? How much more did you want something because it was forbidden? Just as Alex states of how it is rebelled against in the UK because it is forced on them, it works the same in reverse.
|
|
|
Post by .•´¯`•þasђγ•._.•´ on Mar 15, 2004 18:42:57 GMT -5
First off, Pashy, I think they should teach children how to properly handle a firearm. How many accidental deaths could be prevented if children knew how to properly handle a firearm? But that is another topic all together. you are flowering kidding me right ?
what the hell use do any of your children have for guns ?? i am gonna hazard a guess and say NONE. i'd hazard a guess and say majority of adults dont either. so why oh why would you need to have your children learn to use a gun properly.
how about getting rid of that ridiculous gun culture you americans seem to love so much....might make a world of difference.
i cant even think of anything to say - i'm too outraged.
[/b][/i]
|
|
|
Post by .•´¯`•þasђγ•._.•´ on Mar 15, 2004 19:06:21 GMT -5
Teaching kids about the beliefs(not what to believe) of all religions and the history behind each, would give them a much better perspective of the world and the rest of those that inhabit it. Instead of Christian kids watching the news and hating muslims for thier actions, or muslims being taught to hate christians, there would be an enlightenment on the part of most that we are not so different in what we believe. And that would give way to respect, and respect would give way to peace. Instead, in the US a different course of action has been taken. They claim seperation of church and state, but they single out only christians. Kids that practice other religions are usually free to do so, it is only the christians that are restricted in most schools. And once again this discriminatory action only further drives in the wedges that seperate us and breeds only more discontent. Personally I think this has only helped Christianity grow. How many of you as kids rebelled against what you were told to believe? How much more did you want something because it was forbidden? Just as Alex states of how it is rebelled against in the UK because it is forced on them, it works the same in reverse. everyone acts like teaching about religion is the only way to teach about accepting diversity in cultures and religion...
it's a separate issue entirely in my books. it's the same as saying you can only teach morals through religious teachings.
complete rubbish !
i dont believe christians are discriminated against in australian schools. kids are free to believe what they want, talk about it, pray if they want. however, just like other kids of other religious persuasions, they are not allowed to let it interrupt their normal day to day routine of learning, which is just how it should be.
i want my kids learning A,B,C's and 1,2,3's whilst in primary school. thats what schools for, consider it my childs job to go to school and learn those things.
any other teachings will come from myself, family, friends, books, tv, movies, and experiences... [/i][/color]
|
|
|
Post by Chuck on Mar 15, 2004 20:28:37 GMT -5
Pashy everybody doesn't share your opinion, better choice would be to leave it up to the parents... everybody will be happy. Just a point of information, the following is not part of Christian theology. You shouldn't look at religion based upon misconceptions. had the witch burnings and decided as the witches praticed something that was considered not a skill of god (healing people) they hung them all!
|
|
|
Post by .•´¯`•þasђγ•._.•´ on Mar 15, 2004 20:41:12 GMT -5
Pashy everybody doesn't share your opinion, better choice would be to leave it up to the parents... everybody will be happy. ummmm chuck, thats exactly what i said in the beginning of the debate [/b][/i]
|
|
|
Post by Warrior124 on Mar 15, 2004 21:07:13 GMT -5
any other teachings will come from myself, family, friends, books, tv, movies, and experiences... [/i][/color] [/quote]While I agree with what you say about guns I don't believe in letting tv, movies, and such be a moral stand for kids. In most of the shows that are shown you see things such as s**, violence, and such as that. However, you hardly ever see good will towards one another, and people visiting the sick, feeding the hungry, and such. Just because Christianity embraces these kinds of teachings doesn't mean it is ONLY for Christians. Anyone can apply these to their lives. Christianity is a word that means a follower of Christ. Those who are called will hear HIS voice, and will follow. That is what a Christian is all about. However, you don't have to be a Christian to apply its moral teachings to your life. As a Christian it IS my belief that the only way to salvation is through faith in Jesus. However, you don't have to have faith in Jesus to apply its moral teachings to your life. It is only right to love your neighbor as yourself. It is only right to feed the hungry, or visit the sick, and such as these. If people would start doing these things, and teach their children to do the same then this world would be much better off than it is now. Schools can apply these moral teachings to their other teachings without neccessarily making it a religious issue. As much as I would like to see Christianity taught in schools, and such I know many people wouldn't want that. However, don't sacrifice teaching moral values just because you think it is of a particular religion. Doing the right thing is for everyone of any creed, or national origin. It isn't just limited to a certain religion.
|
|
|
Post by .•´¯`•þasђγ•._.•´ on Mar 15, 2004 21:35:57 GMT -5
i said other teachings....not teachings only specific to religion or morality.
the tv is a useful tool in teaching. think of all the documentaries you might watch or the news etc. sure you can read it....but why not watch also. [/i][/color]
|
|
Fisher
xTeam
If a Stamped Ever Happens to Run at You, Never Stop and Shout Jumangi, it Doesn't Work!!!!
Posts: 3,187
|
Post by Fisher on Mar 16, 2004 6:14:23 GMT -5
alex asked me for an irish point of view on messenger, so heres my reply.....as there are different kinds of religions, who fight with each other etc....i dont think religion should be in schools....most schools here are based by religion then gender, although some are mixed. the goverment claim they want all religions and genders to get along, if so, why have catholic or prodestant only schools? why have girl and boy only schools? all schools should be mixed, and to do this properly religion will need to be taken out of the crecliam (crap spellin). aint arsed to write any more, later
ps: alex, your a tit
|
|
|
Post by Chuck on Mar 16, 2004 11:46:56 GMT -5
ummmm chuck, thats exactly what i said in the beginning of the debate [/b][/i][/quote] I missunderstood your second last post. I thought you are saying to completely get rid of religious teaching.... sorry
|
|
|
Post by Ohio on Mar 16, 2004 13:51:02 GMT -5
you are flowering kidding me right ?
what the hell use do any of your children have for guns ?? i am gonna hazard a guess and say NONE. i'd hazard a guess and say majority of adults dont either. so why oh why would you need to have your children learn to use a gun properly.
how about getting rid of that ridiculous gun culture you americans seem to love so much....might make a world of difference.
i cant even think of anything to say - i'm too outraged.
[/b][/i][/quote] Where to start? Well first off, maybe your looking at the violence problem backwards. You want less violence, educate children to the dangers of guns and the proper handling. Cause guess what, guns are not going anywhere. There are two places right now a kid can learn about guns, their parents, and the street. Its obvious alot of parents are not doing thier job, and we know no good comes from the street knowledge(gangs). At some point your child is going to come in contact with a firearm. Be it at a friends house, on the street, or someone bringing one to school. How well did "just say no" work for you? Curiousity is a powerful influence. You want to see less gun violence, then you need more gun education. As for removing them from society, yeah thats a noble idea. Then only criminals and the government would possess guns. Which do you trust? Besides, I think you mistook my meaning. In firearms education is not necessary to even fire the weapon. I am not talking about training children to be marksmen. I was refering to what to when they encounter a firearm at little Johnny's house. Because little Johnny does not know any better than to play with his fathers Glock 9mm. Did little Johnny check to see if it was loaded before he pointed at your child and pulled the trigger? It happens all the time, because kids do not know any better. Most of their firearm education comes from movies. Everyone wants a more peaceful and less violent society, but no one seems to want to accept the real answer. Firearms are not going away. So that is not the answer. We make more and more restricting laws every year but that does not seem to work. I wonder what the missing key is? Oh yeah, education, or the serious lack of.
|
|
|
Post by p00p on Mar 16, 2004 13:57:13 GMT -5
Well Jewish teachings he was a bit more critical almost to the point he delved to describe them as a lie in the whole sense of the term, but that of course could be looked at as a more political statement of his time due to tensions of the time and the rather all to often inter-arab wars of his time, when it comes to the bible we dont accept it or deny it, simply take jesus as a messenger of god/allah or what ever name you wish to attach to the figure. So the words of jesus in their orginal form or the genral principle of the man is accepted but not the bible wholesale but good to see you reading around ohio
|
|