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Post by Warrior124 on Mar 27, 2004 15:30:09 GMT -5
Alexander, my father told me that he made that decision, because at that tme there were no other treatments available that could help. If he had've waited a little longer then he would've found that there were some treatments available. Dying with dignity, and all is good, but fighting to stay alive is even better. During life everyone suffers now, and then, but is it right to go on top of a building, and jump to your death just because you have a problem that you think noone can fix? Is it right to go out, and shoot your child to death just because they have a broken bone? People shoot horses many times when a horse has a broken bone. So, why is it considered evil when someone shoots a child for having the same?
You told me it was wrong to want my father to live. Alexander, it is wrong not to want him to live. You don't end your life, or the life of someone else just because there is a problem that seems hopeless. Life wasn't given to us for us to put it down.
P.S.:If dying with dignity is so important then why not euthanize everyone before they get old? Is it right to do that, or is it just for those who are sick? When people gets old they tend to lose alot of control of their bodily functions, as well. However, would you euthanize an old person who doesn't have cancer, or any other disease just because they can't control some of their bodily functions?
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Post by Warrior124 on Mar 27, 2004 15:46:09 GMT -5
sorry to say it warrior but people who say that cancer patients or in fact anyone who kills themselves are weak or wimping out are kinda being selfish because it was his path and theres nothing at all wrong with wanting to die if you have something thats treatable but still in the large part uncurable, especially when your in that much pain Well, why is suicide worse, then? Whenever someone commits suicide they too are in a great deal amount of pain emotionally. Sometimes people commits suicide out of physical pain, as well. So, why is that wrong, but euthanizing yourself isn't? You don't end your life just because you are suffering. Else, why not have yourself euthanized whenever your break a bone, or something? To me, suicide, and euthanasia are both the same. They are both wrong plain and simple.
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Post by Dangermouse on Mar 27, 2004 16:51:50 GMT -5
Just out of curiosity, would/do you think your views be the same if you were'nt a practicing christian?
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Post by Warrior124 on Mar 27, 2004 17:59:28 GMT -5
Well, all I do know is that life is something you don't toss away like tissue paper, or something. I have respect for all life, and it isn't just because of my faith. It is because I know that once you lose your life you can never get it back.
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Post by .•´¯`•þasђγ•._.•´ on Mar 27, 2004 18:06:02 GMT -5
ppl that ill who want to die dont make the decision lightly and i am sure dont value there life like tissue paper.
i think they value living a great deal - enough to not want to be dying and not really living at all. [/i][/color]
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Post by Alexander on Mar 28, 2004 11:16:05 GMT -5
Alexander, my father told me that he made that decision, because at that tme there were no other treatments available that could help. If he had've waited a little longer then he would've found that there were some treatments available. Dying with dignity, and all is good, but fighting to stay alive is even better. During life everyone suffers now, and then, but is it right to go on top of a building, and jump to your death just because you have a problem that you think noone can fix? Is it right to go out, and shoot your child to death just because they have a broken bone? People shoot horses many times when a horse has a broken bone. So, why is it considered evil when someone shoots a child for having the same? You told me it was wrong to want my father to live. Alexander, it is wrong not to want him to live. You don't end your life, or the life of someone else just because there is a problem that seems hopeless. Life wasn't given to us for us to put it down. P.S.:If dying with dignity is so important then why not euthanize everyone before they get old? Is it right to do that, or is it just for those who are sick? When people gets old they tend to lose alot of control of their bodily functions, as well. However, would you euthanize an old person who doesn't have cancer, or any other disease just because they can't control some of their bodily functions? for one thing broken bones can be fixed, there is treatment, cancer cannot be cured the facts are at the moment there is no miricle cure, and its unlikely there will be one for a while, there is medicene he could have actually taken at the time but the point is that he decided to take his own life, he wouldnt have done it if he didnt think that he would die in lots of pain, and though yes we all go through pain, no-one on earth other then someone with cancer can imagine the pain their suffering, if he would die early and there would be no pain that seems better then to fight to the end in extreme agony, and you do have to emphasize with him warrior. and as i said above there ARE treatments that could have helped, and i doubt if he had taken the one im thinking of, but he didnt because by treatment im guessing he means cure. warrior its not wrong to want your father to live but its wrong to have expected him to fight a loosing battle which would have made him die in pain when he could die earlier and without extreme suffering, remember its easy enough to make judgements saying that you wouldnt do anything like that or think its wrong to do it but if gods forbid anything like that ever happened to yourself you would see the situation in an entirely new light and may not choose the same option, taking your own life is not cowardly, it takes a lot of courage to decide to die not knowing what will happen afterwards. as for your last comment, did you know the highest amounts of suicide rates in the world by a very large margin is from the elderly, you cant make the decision for them but if its what they wish they will do it no matter what you or anyone else says because its their life and if they want to give up the last few years of it, thats entirely their choice.
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Post by ozzywizard on Mar 28, 2004 14:33:39 GMT -5
Euthanasia is a funny one to debate on . In one respect we are discussing if we should terminate a life at either the persons request or a loved ones decision as the end is expected to be inevitable with prolonged pain. Their is another side to the scale, should we really use machines to keep people alive that should be dead ? . If there is a chance of them recovering then the machines serve their purpose but if no chance then isnt their time allready up ? . shouldnt they be allready dead ? .
So in some circumstances the natural coarse of life should of been over but we interfered when maybe we should not have and kept the person alive.
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Post by Alexander on Mar 28, 2004 14:39:54 GMT -5
lol thats a very christian perspective ozzy If we didnt use machines to save people there would be millions more die in car accidents, from diseases, from other things too, would pretty much send us back a few hundred years into the dark ages, we dont want the plague again so no thx
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Post by ozzywizard on Mar 28, 2004 14:44:33 GMT -5
It is more of a medical opinion than a christian one Alex.
I think we have come on leaps and bounds in medical science and technology. The machines serve a purpose and are very usefull things. Im glad that I have the comfort to know if I was in an accident they are there to give me a chance. But if I had no chance and death wass inevitable due to the vast injuries (or viri) then the machines are being abused.
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Post by Alexander on Mar 28, 2004 16:42:29 GMT -5
yea but in that case if their not gunna get better you could say that as long as the machine can keep them alive, why not?
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Post by Warrior124 on Mar 28, 2004 18:20:08 GMT -5
I know he didn't make the decision lightly. Noone ever makes decisions like that lightly, at least I hope not, but this brings us back to the decisions we do make for instance whether to start smoking, or not. Making good decisions now can help people from making other more drastic decisions in the future. My dad chose to smoke, and because of that decision he had to make a drastic decision on down the road to end his life, because he thought there were no treatments to help him. This is what I meant by tossing life away like some tissue paper. Making good decisions now for your life is the key. This is why I am dead set against smoking, or any other thing that can have a great deal of negative impact on your life.
P.S.: About a month ago I saw a news report of a drug they have been testing on mice with cancer cells, and the medicine killed the cancer cells. This means we are even more closer now to a cure than ever before. They will start testing human subjects soon.
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Post by Alexander on Mar 28, 2004 19:06:51 GMT -5
warrior but thats not the topic, lol
the topic is should people be allowed to kill themselves if they are critically ill / cannot be cured or allow others to kill them if they are unable to do it themselves due to illness etc.
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Post by Warrior124 on Mar 28, 2004 19:21:07 GMT -5
Yes, you said due to illnesses, and such. One of the main reasons for many, not all, but many incurable illnesses is because of the habits we picked up early in life, and this in turn is what leads many to the decision they make of being euthanised. So, this does have a great deal to do with this topic. I have known people in their 80's to be in much better shape than many 20 year olds, and it is due in large to the decisions they made early on in life that lead them to such terrific health. Good judgement in life can lead to a long, and prosperous life therefore eliminating the need for euthanisation.
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Post by Freak on Mar 29, 2004 4:00:19 GMT -5
i think its the persons choice no matter. even suicide. personally i don't like the idea of suicide as a way out of life but on the other side alot of the us and other countries pride on being open to different beliefs so why is there so much forcing of someones beliefes onto others through laws.
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Post by .•´¯`•þasђγ•._.•´ on Mar 29, 2004 6:53:42 GMT -5
Yes, you said due to illnesses, and such. One of the main reasons for many, not all, but many incurable illnesses is because of the habits we picked up early in life, and this in turn is what leads many to the decision they make of being euthanised. So, this does have a great deal to do with this topic. I have known people in their 80's to be in much better shape than many 20 year olds, and it is due in large to the decisions they made early on in life that lead them to such terrific health. Good judgement in life can lead to a long, and prosperous life therefore eliminating the need for euthanisation. the way you speak is almost like you consider illness to be a punishment for "bad" decisions made earlier in your life.
to say many illnesses are due in large to something ppl do earlier in their lives i think is pretty much a big load of BS.
say that to a bunch of ppl suffering from multiple sclerosis, parkinsons, huntingtons, cancer (you cant say how cancer is caused for sure), alzheimers, diabetes and other degenerative disease and not to mention injuries, and see how far you get with a thought like that.
[/i][/color]
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