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Post by Warrior124 on Mar 29, 2004 8:30:34 GMT -5
the way you speak is almost like you consider illness to be a punishment for "bad" decisions made earlier in your life.
to say many illnesses are due in large to something ppl do earlier in their lives i think is pretty much a big load of BS.
say that to a bunch of ppl suffering from multiple sclerosis, parkinsons, huntingtons, cancer (you cant say how cancer is caused for sure), alzheimers, diabetes and other degenerative disease and not to mention injuries, and see how far you get with a thought like that.
[/i][/color][/quote] No, I'm not saying it is a punishment for bad decisions made early on in life. It is just a way of life. You eat too much, and you get fat. You drink too much, and you get drunk, and so on, and so forth. Now, note that I said "not all, but many incurable illnesses is because of the habits we picked up early in life...". I didn't say most either, just many. There are many people with illnesses that were passed on to them from their parents, and such. However, if you live a good lifestyle more than likely you will live a long, and healthy life.
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Post by Warrior124 on Mar 29, 2004 8:44:26 GMT -5
i think its the persons choice no matter. even suicide. personally i don't like the idea of suicide as a way out of life but on the other side alot of the us and other countries pride on being open to different beliefs so why is there so much forcing of someones beliefes onto others through laws. It is called "Respect for all life". It is why we have friendships, and other kinds of relationships, because we have the need to be able to count on someone else, and have someone else count on us for companionship. Now, a good friend wouldn't be a good friend at all if he/she let you walk in front of an oncomming train would they? If a person really wants to commit suicide, and thinks that they can do whatever they want with their lives then here is a tip. First, make sure you don't have friends, or any other kind of a relationship. A relationship of any kind binds two lives together, and therefore makes each person responsible for the other. Otherwise what good is it to have any relationship?
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Post by .•´¯`•þasђγ•._.•´ on Mar 29, 2004 11:28:52 GMT -5
if someone was your friend they would d**n well understand your want to die if you were in pain and distress.
if something happens to me and i am degenerating, i know d**n well what i will do. surround myself with my loved ones and end my life.
wouldnt even hesitate one bit about it either.
if anyone of my loved ones didnt understand my want to do that - would be them being selfish. thankfully, i know i have friends and family who dont believe in life is a gift from god rubbish and actually believe that life is for living, not withering away whilst suffering.
[/b][/i]
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Post by Chuck on Mar 29, 2004 11:54:51 GMT -5
Yes, you said due to illnesses, and such. One of the main reasons for many, not all, but many incurable illnesses is because of the habits we picked up early in life, and this in turn is what leads many to the decision they make of being euthanised. So, this does have a great deal to do with this topic. I have known people in their 80's to be in much better shape than many 20 year olds, and it is due in large to the decisions they made early on in life that lead them to such terrific health. Good judgement in life can lead to a long, and prosperous life well said! Lets the look at the argument from a different angle. You will reach this situation too, so would you want the same for yourself? If your children say: Hey dad/mom you are too old and too weak to even control your potty - you have to wear diapers, anybody rarely visits you... you are in miserable condition... when we were babies we were in helpless condition too, but we had whole future ahead of us so you took care of us and loved us. But see you gona die anyway in few years so why don't you die with dignity?
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Post by Alexander on Mar 29, 2004 15:00:51 GMT -5
chuck thats totally wrong... people dont tell people that they should die, no-one knows your own body like yourself and it should be your decision if you want to die, if you cant beat the pain, if you are going to die a painful death, what kind of friend would force their friend to go through total agony just to keep them alive longer, if anyone did that to me i would hate them to eternity because your not doing it for their good, your doing it because YOU yourself cannot handle letting them go, no-one deserves to have to go beyond their pain limit and the amount they can take, if they want to stay alive, let them, otherwise let them do what they see best, its their path, if you prevent them dying when they wish your just as bad as someone who prevents a religious person preying or a disabled person working.
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Post by Warrior124 on Mar 29, 2004 15:27:32 GMT -5
Okay, let me ask you this. What about people with aids? There are millions of people with aids, and many of them live through their pain. They are just as apt to suffering as anybody else, and even more so. However, alot of them live through it by taking medication, and such.
If you, Pashy, or anyone else wants to end your life if you ever feel pain, and I hope that neither of you will ever have to go through it, the that is your decision to make, and I can say it is one of the worst deciisons to make all I want, but it won't change your minds.
And Pashy, whether you believe it, or not life is a gift. Whether you believe it is a gift from God, or something else. It is a gift, and should never be taken so lightly. There are people out there that doesn't suffer all that much at all, but they commit suicide anyway. Life should always be treasured everyday. I don't mean to upset you, or anyone else here, and I'm sorry if I did, but all life is precious, and should never be taken for granted.
P.S.: You basically said it was selfish for people to not stand by someones decision to die. Maybe it is, but that is what caring, or even love is all about. There are medications out there that can help reduce pain a great deal, and can even help prolong life. Like I said earlier they are even coming up with ways to cure cancer, and all. What would you do if one day a friend, or family member was dying of a disease where a cure was very close have that person euthanised, then the very next day you found that they finally came up with the cure? Wouldn't it be upsetting to know that you lost your loved one forever just because you couldn't hold on just for one more day? I agree that having to take medications for pain, and to prolong life is very stressing to the person who has to take it. However, life is always worth living, and I am greatful that many people living with these diseases who choose not to be euthanised knows that themselves.
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Post by Chuck on Mar 29, 2004 15:32:35 GMT -5
That looks like socially miserable situation rather than medical.
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Post by Warrior124 on Mar 29, 2004 15:45:22 GMT -5
agreed. There are times when I sit here at the house bored out of my mind. When I was a kid, and had fluid in the knee I stayed at home bored out of my mind, as well. I couldn't hardly do anything for myself, and I was in a terrible amount of pain. Almost to the point where I wanted to take my own life, as well. However, I'm still here, and don't regret one bit the decision I made to just live through it. Some people might think that having fluid in the knee isn't a big deal, but if you've never had it then you have no idea.
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Post by Alexander on Mar 29, 2004 19:41:31 GMT -5
life is a gift... some people might not see it this way, theres a good debate that if hell does exist then we are in essence living within it , lol and theres plenty of things to support that
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Post by .•´¯`•þasђγ•._.•´ on Mar 29, 2004 22:30:37 GMT -5
chuck i'm not talking about ppl making a decision to euthanise someone else. however, that occurs all the time. whether it's ppl agreeing to turn off breathing machines or taking out food tubes, palliative care and not to mention patients having DNR on their records. doctors also have been known to prescribe doses large enough to kill.
i'm talking about ppl making the choice for themselves to cease their lives before they end up on life support. being able to make that choice so their loved ones dont have to make a decision.
warrior i would say any AIDs patient who gets ill to the point of wanting to end their lives can go ahead and do it. it's not different to any other disease. AIDs sufferers dont die of AIDs, they die from AIDs related illnesses, cancers, pneumonia etc.. i dont really understand even why you brought that up.
about you hoping i never have to suffer. i've suffered already. enough to know that life is precious. but it's MY life and i will be flowered if anyone is gonna give ME opposition to ending my life when it's time because of some moralistic views. [/b][/i]
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ebil
xTeam
^_^
Posts: 541
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Post by ebil on Mar 30, 2004 0:29:38 GMT -5
AIDS IS TEH SUXOR
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Post by Webagent on Mar 30, 2004 0:46:18 GMT -5
I am not really against euthanasia but on the other hand I'm not really in favour also, I can think of situations where it would be cruel to leave someone the last days of life in terrible pain under huge amounts of morfine, I think in a situation like that I would support euthanasia, when it really concerns a lost cause.
but not when it is just the mental state, I can understand you dont want to become this old where you are only a nuisance but I also think there need to be boundries how far you can go with this, and mental state crosses that boundry for me.
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Post by Warrior124 on Mar 30, 2004 0:56:18 GMT -5
Pashy, reread what I said. I said that it is upto you whether or not you ever would want to end your life. I also said that no matter how much I say it is wrong it still wouldn't change your mind. But you know what else? I definitely wouldn't be a friend if I helped participate in it at all, and if I were one of your closest friends then you would have to count me out of being there when you do it, and it wouldn't be because I didn't care, but because I would care. A friend doesn't watch someone they care about toss away their life. Like I said. It may be selfish, but that is what caring is all about. You can get all huffy about it if you want, and I'm not saying anymore on this subject, except this. It really is a sad day when someone someone else hardly knows cares more about that person, and his/her life than that person does him/herself.
P.S.:
I brought up that just to show that aids patients goes through life in extreme pain themselves. They too are dying. However, most of them choose to keep on living as long as possible. Now, there are probably some who do chooses to end their life, but for the most part they choose to live. Now, if someone with AIDS, one of the worlds deadliest diseases, can choose to live then I definitely cannot see why someone with a lesser illness cannot make that decision.
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Post by ozzywizard on Mar 30, 2004 1:22:12 GMT -5
It is there life and up to them if they wish to end it or not. I talk to people daily who have no illness at all who wish to take their lifes. Some are doing it for attention, some do it because they are are Mentally Ill, others do it for many other reasons which I will not bore you all with . But my advise to them all is that it is their choice. The above statement may seem a little harsh at first reading but also realistic, im not a councilling service but a Psychosis accesor . If they are a danger to themselves or others I will take steps to protect them but it is their choice. Me not back on the board now till Friday so everyone take care
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Post by Alexander on Mar 30, 2004 1:35:03 GMT -5
warrior ALL aids sufferers go through Euthanasia, when their condition gets steadily worse and say they get pheunomia the doctors dont treat the pheunomia in the last hours of life (partially cause it wouldnt help much cause its totally destroyed their immune system), meaning they just keep them comfortable and let them die, the patients very rarely demand treatment for these things from what ive gathered and though dont particularly want to die they allow it to carry on, so your comment saying the majority is totally unjustified.
also aids sufferers often develop mental illness and want to kill themselves from that.
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