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Post by Freak on Dec 15, 2003 13:02:18 GMT -5
duke the reason for alot of fuel consumption is 1) its a really large country! 2) further west you go the more spread out things are. new york has high rises and large apartment buildings. we don't see that out here and many times our jobs can be 15-30 miles from home.
its not fair for people of other countries to look at the consumption without knowing the geography
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Post by Ohio on Dec 15, 2003 13:02:49 GMT -5
The new york times is the farthest thing you can find from conservitism, and to use that as a source, You may as well make up the information yourself. Why not? That is how the New York times operates. As for past presidents supporting Iraq, sometimes z00ey, the enemy of your enemy is your friend. And the only one that supported them was primarily Carter in the 70's, Reagan pretty much cut Iraq off. There was no support to Iraq form either of the Bushes. Reagan gave aid to the Afgans of which they were trying to drive the Russains out of their country. We do not have a crystal ball to tell the future, so we did not know that an american girl would laugh at Osama's extremely small thingy to make him hate the US(as reported by one of Osama's brothers to a newspaper), nor that Afganistan would be taken over by the Taliban and the 2 would hook up. Instead, you want to bash my country and its past and present leaders for doing what they thought best at the time. But lets not forget, without Reagan, there would still be a wall running through the middle of you country, but of course I am sure the germans do not see it that way at all. Saddam was more of a Murderous dictator than Adloph Hitler. Hitler chose one group of people to hate and murder, no one, not even family was safe from saddam. And for the leaders of those countries that voted against taking action, I wonder how they sleep at night knowing they voted for the mistreatment and the atrocities of Saddam to continue unchecked.
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Post by Freak on Dec 15, 2003 13:05:36 GMT -5
correction ohio. hitler was ALOT worse. and he didn't just kill the jews. how many homos**uals were killed as well
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Post by Duke Tosti on Dec 15, 2003 13:06:13 GMT -5
about the UN being mentioned by certain ppl ... countries like iraqi also didn't take it into account, only when it helped their case ... that one of the veto holders and big countries did something without it's approval had a bigger impact, but in many cases th UN was a farce before anyway and to use some history, after WW I an organ was called into life similar to the UN (I don't know how it was called in english, in dutch it was 'de volkenbond') it was eventually Germany who, with their actions, blowed the whole idea into pieces, I know it's an old example, but it's as much history as what america did, it can't be changed anymore
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Post by Freak on Dec 15, 2003 13:07:52 GMT -5
/me shuts up this is now four conversations. duke, League of Nations i believe it is in english
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Post by Duke Tosti on Dec 15, 2003 13:13:55 GMT -5
duke the reason for alot of fuel consumption is 1) its a really large country! 2) further west you go the more spread out things are. new york has high rises and large apartment buildings. we don't see that out here and many times our jobs can be 15-30 miles from home. its not fair for people of other countries to look at the consumption without knowing the geography I know its geography, in the USA there are allmost no real restrictions on dumping, for example, of filthy and used cooling water, there are no environmental demands on how much co2 a car is allowed produce, fast food chains hardly recycle anything, I can go on forever, all the experts that where present in kyoto knew what they where talking about using the excuse of being 'big' does not do it, in Holland we are small, we have high ways full of cars during the busiest hours, and still we try to reach the goals set in kyoto
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Post by Ohio on Dec 15, 2003 13:14:42 GMT -5
correction ohio. hitler was ALOT worse. and he didn't just kill the jews. how many hobos**uals were killed as well How many 12 year girls did Hitler have drug in the street and gang raped by soldiers in front of their family while the rest of the inhabitants on the block were made to watch? And for no more of a reason than to incite more fear in the ppl.
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Post by Ohio on Dec 15, 2003 13:18:24 GMT -5
I know its geography, in the USA there are allmost no real restrictions on dumping, for example, of filthy and used cooling water, there are no environmental demands on how much co2 a car is allowed produce, fast food chains hardly recycle anything, I can go on forever, all the experts that where present in kyoto knew what they where talking about using the excuse of being 'big' does not do it, in Holland we are small, we have high ways full of cars during the busiest hours, and still we try to reach the goals set in kyoto As for your regulations on dumping cooling water and recycling and exhaust emissions, you may want to do some more research on US policies because your information is completely inacurate. Bush did not sign kyoto because he does not care about the evironment, he did not sign because of such inaccuracies in their findings against the US. You want us to be a part of something, get your facts about us straight first.
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Post by Duke Tosti on Dec 15, 2003 13:22:08 GMT -5
he let little children look while their parents where transported into the section of the camp where noone ever returned from, while the children cried and saw their parents do the same
he hanged ppl who tried to get rid of him with piano snares, filmed it and showed to his or her family what would happen with ppl that betrayed him, the ppl hanging there while their rosygarden was dripping besides their legs, mixed with their own blood ...
he gave the orders to, in front of the eyes of a whole village he shot the father and mother and oldest son of a family hiding some jewish ppl
bad is bad
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Post by Ohio on Dec 15, 2003 12:31:24 GMT -5
Duke, I made the comparison more to prove a point than to say which was worse. For both of them were pure evil, and when something is pure evil, how can you say it is worse than something else of the same purity. The only difference between the two was one had amassed more resources to spread his ilk. They are both the same in my eyes.
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Post by Duke Tosti on Dec 15, 2003 12:31:34 GMT -5
I was only thinking of some things that where environment unhealthy, maybe the us has regulations on it, but for the other 2 examples ... and bush didn't signed kyoto because he didn't care about environmental issues ... he's not the only one on the world ... nor in the US, and not caring about the environment is the same as not caring for anyone of the 5 billion ppl living on this earth ... only proves the fact that bush is an unsocial a****** to me
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Post by Duke Tosti on Dec 15, 2003 12:32:47 GMT -5
Duke, I made the comparison more to prove a point than to say which was worse. For both of them were pure evil, and when something is pure evil, how can you say it is worse than something else of the same purity. The only difference between the two was one had amassed more resources to spread his ilk. They are both the same in my eyes. we have found a point on which we agree then did take us quite a while to get there ...
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Post by Ohio on Dec 15, 2003 12:33:40 GMT -5
And you have actually talked to him and he said "I do not care about the environment"?
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Post by Duke Tosti on Dec 15, 2003 12:35:53 GMT -5
Bush did not sign kyoto because he does not care about the evironment, he did not sign because of such inaccuracies in their findings against the US. You want us to be a part of something, get your facts about us straight first. I read it somehwre today, for the wholse story read the link under here xt.proboards18.com/index.cgi?board=genews&action=display&thread=1071402502...
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Post by Duke Tosti on Dec 15, 2003 12:39:58 GMT -5
not interested, economy is more important, blergh *edit* sorry I have to leave this discussion for now ... my dad needs this computer and I need to learn ...
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