overdose
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Post by overdose on Mar 25, 2004 4:26:37 GMT -5
andrew, what may seem a valid point to you may not seem valid with me, everybody grows up diferent, some believe in god, some don't etc etc, thats just life
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Post by Dangermouse on Mar 25, 2004 4:28:15 GMT -5
I dont care what you think about my opinions, because thats all they are, my opinion. And youre just as entitled to have your own, and this is the place to discuss them.
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overdose
XTeam
OverdoseDesigns.net
Posts: 2,804
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Post by overdose on Mar 25, 2004 4:29:39 GMT -5
I dont care what you think about my opinions, because thats all they are, my opinionI never said you should care, just dont see the point because as you said, they are yours, that's why i said 'what point?' anyway as i said before, done with this subject
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Post by Dangermouse on Mar 25, 2004 4:30:28 GMT -5
Thought you were 'done with this thread'......oh i give up
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Post by Warrior124 on Mar 25, 2004 7:52:12 GMT -5
I did have a point actually Rob, try reading it again. For the people who inhale it: Its unpleasent, can have health implications and its rude For the people who smoke it: It gives you cancer and costs you way too much money. That is true, Dangermouse. Infact, science is now saying that second hand smoking puts a person at a greater risk of lung cancer than just smoking a cigarrette. I guess that is because some cigs have filters that prevents the actual smoker from inhaling much of the chemicals that produces the cancer. However, the other end doesn't contain any filters. So, here is a case of someones choices shortening other peoples lives. Sounds like murder to me. I'm not against anyone who smokes. However, I think it is time for people to stop making decisions without knowing what consequences they face, first.
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Post by Duke Tosti on Mar 25, 2004 8:19:45 GMT -5
and where it was all about (haven't read everything ) ... when they are allowed to make commercials about smoking, they try to make it look as cool as possible, like the 'Malboro Cowboy' (who died way too early a while back) ... and because more people want to look cool, they start to smoke too, even though they know about the dangers
alcohol ans smoking is different btw ... smoking causes health problems, drinking doesn't, only if u start drinking very much , as said before, little amounts of alcohol are healthy
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Post by Fravia on Mar 25, 2004 8:51:08 GMT -5
Alex, Tut tut pulling more misinformation out of your a** ol'chap!
The NHS is under all the presure and crumbling becuase of smokers? realy? i think not alex , thats one of those "Urban Myths" commonly used by people who pipe up with there 5 cents worth out of a need to express a preformed opinion that they have utterly no facts to back it up with, and why is it an utter load of tripe? well The British Gov spends 3.5 Billion a year on the treatment of smoking related illness yet they collect within the region of 6.5 Billion from Tabbaco Tax yearly.
Smoking related treatments are not putting a squeeze on the national health service alex, what a load of utter coconuts to be frank about it and they actualy spend more cash on Heart related health problems that on smoking related illness, and of course some heart problems are smoking related but the majority percentage are not. So please in the future alex before you deciced to make such a large claim , read some of the national health litrature, independant surveys of the NHS, the Health departments reports on treatment statistics and dont throw something that can only been seen as " Pub Rumour" or " common myth" into the fray, it not only degrades the debate and puts yet more misinformation out there, but also makes you look like an a** at the same time.
And dangermouse, if the people smoking at the exits of your college annoy you so much, go to a student rep about it? or the college and make your complaint known, its all fine and well hashing it out online and complaining about how much you suffer becuase of smokers...but have you ever actualy taken messures to make this problem know? most likely not! use your right to free speech, thats what its there for ffs
On the matter of Booze and adverts pretaining to it, its come here nor there for me. it all comes down to how well a parent educates there kids on matters like Drink and Smoking, and if they do it well they wont so be so easy to take in with all the hyped up ads.
Also back to alex quickly, you go on about how much trouble smokers cuase alex, but remember people who have been smoking for say 20 years plus will find it hard to give up, as nicotine is highly addictive and in some cases extremely hard to give up. So maybe if people looked at it from the point of view that smokers do have an addiction and Understand that, they wouldnt be so quick to jump on the smokers are evil bandwagon as so many have done on this thread, and you know, no matter how much you scream and shout about smoking in public, but frankly when im addicted to nicotine and im having a hard time giving it up, and the govs getting thousands out of me every year, making a profit from my and many others addiction , ill smoke where and when i flowering please, its that little thing called freedom granted i NEVER smoke infront of kids when i can help it, i try not to smoke around non smokers, i dont even smoke in the pub now, becuase im very aware of the problems second hand smoke can cuase in a confined space over a period of time, but when someone starts telling me after a hard days work and im walking down the street , that i cant light a smoke up and relax , it will be a simple case of .....Eh naw sorry i think not! becuase its highly unlikely that walking down the street im going to bring any great amount of destress to anyone
But of course alex you would raise you point of " what if you walked past an asmatic kid" <-- you see that alex, thats Hysteria take to the MAX and also a restriction of my freedoms, i wouldnt like to think that i started off some poor kids asma attack, god forbid, but when he's walking down a street with cars pumping out fumes that are cuasing more damage to his lungs than my cig ever will, i dont see why i should allow my self to be spook by such "Emotional blackmail" thats restrictive to my everyday living, the fact that i may pass a kid that has a bad reaction to my smoke is the same as everything else in life "Might" like i might walk out my front door and get knocked down, or i might get mugged leaving work, or i might keal over from a heart attack from reading somewhat laughable arguments online that truely have not been thought threw to any great detial.
Frav,
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Post by Warrior124 on Mar 25, 2004 9:22:38 GMT -5
I am seeing people on here basically saying "What about my rights"? If any of you have kids, then what about their rights to have their parents live with them for as long as possible? If noone has read what I posted about my own father, then I urge you to read it. He died of lung cancer when I was just 18, and to this day I am still suffering from the affects of his death. Not only did I lose a parent, but it has almost ruined my life, as well. I had to quit school at 18, and go to work full time just to pay the bills. However, the bills kept piling up, because I didn't have a job that payed good enough which in turn has ruined my credit history. I had to take care of my mother, and brother which is what I'm still doing, today. I hardly have time for anykind of social life, except when I come on here. Do I regret taking care of my mother, and brother? Not at all. I love them very much, but I wish that I could've finished high school, and graduated with my friends, and went off to college and prepared for better paying jobs. However, the choice my father made kept me from being able to accomplish this. Today, I am 31, and still barely making ends meet. I am taking a home course on medical transcriptioning which I hope to finish soon.
So, before anyone asks "What about my rights?", and if you have kids think about their rights to have you in their lives, first. Because I am pretty sure you would be missed by them if your choice takes you away from them.
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Post by .•´¯`•þasђγ•._.•´ on Mar 25, 2004 9:52:47 GMT -5
i really sympathise with your story warrior *big hugs*
but....
if i thought about what i could be doing to myself and those around me every second i wouldnt ever do anything i would be grappled with fear about EVERYTHING
i dont wanna live like that. i enjoy a smoke or 25 - yes it's a vice, but we all have vices.
i dont much like a drink anymore - but i dont begrudge anyone a drink or 4 if THEY want it.
i smoke a bit of pot now and then - aint hurting anyone else.
i dont own guns, i dont fight, i dont drive, i dont eat rosygarden
it all balances out and i could smoke forever and still never get cancer
i'll take the chance - i prefer MY CHOICES [/i][/color]
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Post by Ohio on Mar 25, 2004 10:24:14 GMT -5
I sympathize with you on your loss Warrior, In fact I lost my mother 6 days after my 18th birthday. My loss was not the result of cancer, or any disease of natural causes. Mine was the result of murder. Did your father drive? He could have died in a car accident as did both the parents of one of my highschool friends. There are many ways to die, some more horrific than others, some brought on oneself some completely out of the blue. When my mother was killed, one of the only things that got me through it was remember the words of the pastor, "when God calls you, you can't get out of it. A tree can fall on your house, you could eat bad food, you could trip down the stairs, there are many ways to pass on, and when it is your time, God will provide a way". Loss of a loved one is painful no matter how it happens. But if you look at the "big picture" does the how matter as much as the why?
Now for the rest of the debate. Not everyone that smokes, gets/gives cancer. Not everyone that consumes alcohol gets liver disease. In fact, the leading cause of death in the US is heart disease. Most of which is caused by improper healthcare, lack of excercise, and malnutriton. The second leading cause of death is cancer, only 48% of which is lung cancer, and not all of that is from the effects of cigarettes. There are many carcinogens that cause cancer. The third leading cause of death is Doctors. With misdiagnosis, mistreatment, and improper medication, doctors kill more ppl than lung cancer. The more and more research that is done, the more and more they are finding that deaths marked as other causes, should have been marked as healthcare(doctors, hospitals, nurses) related. In the end result of investigations, you may find that the Healtcare systems are the leading cause of death. Yet I see more prescription drug commercials and more healthcare commercials than I do Alcohol ads. So if your looking for a band wagon to jump on to fight premature deaths, Fight one that can be one and take on the healtcare field. Some one that smokes or drinks makes that choice, it is not made for them. Being given the wrong medication by a doctor or nurse, is not a choice you make, they decide what medication you receive.
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Post by nita on Mar 25, 2004 10:37:18 GMT -5
The thing is you guys...'Your Choices' makes us have NO choices. Yes we can go to a non smoking part of the restraunt..do you really think the smoke stays on the other side? We give up our right to 'good health and long lives' so that you smokers can have your ciggs. The cigg companies or YOU for that matter, cannot pin point to me one good thing that comes out of smokers. Maybe your short term happiness or stress relievers..ect...But cigg companies are out to make money only. They don't even smoke chances are. And their ciggs kill ppl...not just smokers but non smokers. We don't have a right to 'totally' keep health from smoking. But back on topic....as I said before and I will say it again. There is NO point in advertising their alcohol on tv and such. If they want to advertise it.. they can put up posters in the liqour store. I am not against drinking in moderation and on occassion. How ever long term drinking introduces liver damage over time for some ppl...that is what long term drinking does.....no way out of it....and the alcohol is addictive... ppl become alcoholics and CAN'T live without the alcohol streaming in their veins...and when they get behind the wheel..where the Heck is MY choice to not die??? Wanna talk about choices? I didn't ask to breathe in smoke....I didn't ask to be in a car wreck cause of some drunk man that don't know how to get a designated driver. Where is my choice? If you want to complain....about ppl like us that complain about ppl like you...then you should start talking sense into them (alcohol drinkers) first...and telling them that they put innocent ppl at risk when they get behind the wheel drunk and not responsive enough to be driving. They are the ones screwing up your lives of choice, not us. We are only 'trying' and I will say it again 'TRYING' to have a choice...but technically there isn't one. Why is it when I scroll this convo I see stupid similarites like knives,guns,cars,sticks...ect ect ect....kill ppl so Ban it ALL.. that is a load of BS to back up the guilt. PULEAZE! Smoking = kills and is meant to be addictive. Others suffer. Alcohol = Kills and is meant to be addictive. Others suffer. Knives? Soul purpose is for killing.....military usage....animals....cooking... it has many purposes...and ciggs and alcohol DO NOT have many purposes. Guns...same things as above..multi purposes and if it gets mis used we can't help that....cause of the multi purposes that we need guns for same as knives...Ciggs once again I will say...there is NO multi purpose coming from ciggs. Alcohol .. no MULTI purpose coming from alcohol. You can't classify Ciggs and Alcohol in the same category as you would other things that kill. Why? Cause ciggs and booze was made for the soul purpose to addict you and plain and simple kills and has NO other purpose. Does it not?
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Post by Dangermouse on Mar 25, 2004 11:37:27 GMT -5
very good points there nita. I agree with you
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Post by Ohio on Mar 25, 2004 13:40:45 GMT -5
The thing is you guys...'Your Choices' makes us have NO choices. Yes we can go to a non smoking part of the restraunt..do you really think the smoke stays on the other side? We give up our right to 'good health and long lives' so that you smokers can have your ciggs. Um, you have a choice. Don't go to the restaurant, don't leave your house, these are all choices you could make. So do not say you have no choices. The cigg companies or YOU for that matter, cannot pin point to me one good thing that comes out of smokers. Maybe your short term happiness or stress relievers..ect...But cigg companies are out to make money only. They don't even smoke chances are. And their ciggs kill ppl...not just smokers but non smokers. We don't have a right to 'totally' keep health from smoking. Well, seeing how sin taxes(tobacco and alcohol) account for the majority of tax income, you should really stop and thank every drinker and smoker you see for saving you money. But back on topic....as I said before and I will say it again. There is NO point in advertising their alcohol on tv and such. If they want to advertise it.. they can put up posters in the liqour store. I am not against drinking in moderation and on occassion. How ever long term drinking introduces liver damage over time for some ppl...that is what long term drinking does.....no way out of it....and the alcohol is addictive... ppl become alcoholics and CAN'T live without the alcohol streaming in their veins...and when they get behind the wheel..where the Heck is MY choice to not die??? Wanna talk about choices? I didn't ask to breathe in smoke....I didn't ask to be in a car wreck cause of some drunk man that don't know how to get a designated driver. Where is my choice? Once again you still have a choice. You have as much a chance of being killed by a teenager lacking experience as you do a drunk driver. And you have more chance of death by accident of your own mistake than that of a drunk driver. SO your choice is there, if you fear death by accident so much, don't drive. That is your choice. s** is more addictive than alcohol, should we allow it as well. People with guns kill more than drunk drivers, but yet you do not support a ban on guns. Alcohol is not addictive, the effects of alcohol is addictive to some ppl, that is why alcoholism is classified as a mental disease and not an addiction. As for not "living" with out alcohol, an alcoholic can live just fine with out it and many recovering alcoholics do. Those that don't, make a choice not to, just like you can make a choice not to drive. If you want to complain....about ppl like us that complain about ppl like you...then you should start talking sense into them (alcohol drinkers) first...and telling them that they put innocent ppl at risk when they get behind the wheel drunk and not responsive enough to be driving. The majority does exactly that, but your basing all your assumptions on a few bad examples. They are the ones screwing up your lives of choice, not us. We are only 'trying' and I will say it again 'TRYING' to have a choice...but technically there isn't one. Once again with the choices, you have several choices, you just create the illusion that you don't. Smoking = kills and is meant to be addictive. Others suffer. But is that not their choice to make? You have choices, why should they not have a choice. No one forces them to smoke, they know the risk going into it, yet they choose to do it anyway. At least smokers accept the responsibility for the choice they made. Unlike others that want to blame their choices on everyone else. Alcohol = Kills and is meant to be addictive. Others suffer. Contrary to your misconstrued belief, alcohol in moderation is actually good for your heart and prevent heart disease. Alcohol has many uses besides drinking yourself stupid. Most consumers of alcohol act in a responsible manner. Yet again you base your beliefs and make your assumptions based on a minority of users and not the majority. Knives? Soul purpose is for killing.....military usage....animals....cooking... it has many purposes...and ciggs and alcohol DO NOT have many purposes. Alcohol alternatives: Cooking ingredient, fossil fuel alternative, antiseptic, anestisia, ect. Can we help if a minority misuse it? Guns...same things as above..multi purposes and if it gets mis used we can't help that....cause of the multi purposes that we need guns for same as knives...Ciggs once again I will say...there is NO multi purpose coming from ciggs. Alcohol .. no MULTI purpose coming from alcohol. Once again, alcohol does have multiple uses and still kills less people than guns. You can't classify Ciggs and Alcohol in the same category as you would other things that kill. Why? Cause ciggs and booze was made for the soul purpose to addict you and plain and simple kills and has NO other purpose. Does it not? I am not going to argue about tobacco products, though i could because it does provide benefits but that is not what this debate is about. As for alcohol, you have some very askew misconceptions and a bit of research on actual statistics may do you some good. I use more alcoholic beverages as a cooking ingredient than I have ever consumed in my life. The gasoline I put in my truck contains 10% ethenol, which is alcohol. I would run 100% ethenol if they sold it. Your vehicle will run better and produce far less emisions. Ever use cough syrup, Alcohol. Ever use mouthwash, alcohol. The list goes on and on.
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Post by Webagent on Mar 25, 2004 14:34:26 GMT -5
I just want to add, I keep hearing the word choise, but do you realize that an addiction is not a choise at all?
its not your choise you smoke, you smoke because you are addicted.. offcource you made the choise once to light one, but the reason your smoking now if you do is not because you want it..
please tell me otherwise?
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Post by Webagent on Mar 25, 2004 14:40:31 GMT -5
my sister smokes and has a 3 year old, so what does she do? goes outside and smokes. she has brains to realise that, again, you're blaming to smoke companies. Can you ask her what was the reason she ever lighted the first sigarette ever in the first place? And ask her if your imago of holding a sigarette or smoking wasnt as cool as she thought it was then if she would have ever taken that first one then... if her friends didn't smoke to give her an example or this verry first sigarette, or a populair pop idol who looked cool with it.
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